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Izbrisan uporabnik 474
easy, ne delaj se neumnega. Ni vprašal, koliko je primerov v SLo ali kjerkoli drugje po svetu, niti po osebah, niti če kdo zve ali ne, niti če bi on moral to razlagat. Vse to flancanje je k. nepomembno.
Vprašanje je, ali je za izstop iz islama zagrožena (predvidena/zapovedana/omenjena) smrtna kazen? DA ali NE je dovolj, debatirali o tem, kdo/kaj/kje/zakaj pa bomo malo kasneje. najprej preprosto vprašanje z preprostima možnima odgovoroma DA/NE.
Bo šlo?
Ne vem zakaj ciganski turki ne uporabljajo svoja vozila, zakaj uporabljajo "naci" vozila?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7nouD3WsAAhf2D.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7nouD3WsAAhf2D.jpg
If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him.
You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.
You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.
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Izbrisan uporabnik 474
Zakaj citiraš Biblijo? Kaj ima to z zgoraj navedenim vprašanjem? Ali je res tako težko odgovoriti na preprosto vprašanje z Da ali NE?
Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ردة‎‎ riddah or ارتداد irtidād) is commonly defined as the conscious abandonment of Islam by a Muslim in word or through deed.[1][2] It includes the act of converting to another religion by a person who was born in a Muslim family or who had previously accepted Islam.[3] The definition of apostasy from Islam, and whether and how it should be punished are matters of controversy, and Islamic scholars differ in their opinions on these questions.[4][5][6]
Apostasy in Islam includes within its scope not only the wilful renunciation of Islam by a Muslim through a declaration of their renunciation of the Islamic faith (whether for another religion or irreligiosity), or if lacking a declaration, then by specific deed of undergoing the rites of conversion into another religion, but also even denying, or merely questioning, any "fundamental tenet or creed" of Islam, such as the divinity of God, prophethood of Muhammad, or mocking God, or worshipping one or more idols.[7][8] Different Muslim denominations and schools of thought may also hold different additional views of what each consider a fundamental tenet of the faith. Nevertheless, Muslim jurists from the early period, from different Muslim denominations and schools of thought, developed legal institutions to circumvent harsh punishment in allegations or charges of apostasy. These institutions set the standard for what counts as apostasy from Islam so high that at least prior to the 11th century practically no judgment of apostasy could be passed,[9] though since then, these high standards of what counts for apostasy have not been consistently applied throughout the Muslim World.
The apostate term has also been used for people of religions that trace their origins to Islam, such as the Bahá'ís in Iran, even when the modern adherents of said religions may never have actually been Muslims themselves. Apostasy in Islam does not include acts against Islam or conversion to another religion that is involuntary, forced or done as concealment out of fear of persecution or during war (Taqiyya or Kitman).[10][11]
Until the late 1800s, the vast majority of Islamic scholars in Madh'hab (Sunni) and Imamah (Shia) schools of jurisprudence held that for adult men, apostasy in Islam was a crime as well as a sin, an act of treason punishable with the death penalty,[5][12] typically after a waiting period to allow the apostate time to repent and return to Islam.[5][13][14][15] The kind of apostasy generally deemed to be punishable by the jurists was of the political kind, although there were considerable legal differences of opinion on this matter.[16] Wael Hallaq states that "[in] a culture whose lynchpin is religion, religious principles and religious morality, apostasy is in some way equivalent to high treason in the modern nation-state."[17] In the late 1800s, the use of criminal penalties for apostasy fell into disuse, although civil penalties were still applied.[5]
According to Abdul Rashied Omar, the majority of modern Islamic jurists continue to regard apostasy as a crime deserving the death penalty.[13] Some consider apostasy in Islam to be a form of religious crime, although others do not.[4][5][18] Others argue that the death penalty is an inappropriate punishment,[19][20][21][22] inconsistent with the Qur'anic injunctions such as Quran 88:21-22[23] or "no compulsion in religion";[24] and/or that it is not a general rule but it was enacted at a time when the early Muslim community also faced internal enemies who threatened its unity, safety, and security, and needed to prevent and punish the equivalent of desertion or treason,[25] and should be enforced only if apostasy becomes a mechanism of public disobedience and disorder (fitna).[26] According to Khaled Abou El Fadl, moderate Muslims do not believe that apostasy requires punishment.[23] Critics argue that the death penalty or other punishment for apostasy in Islam is a violation of universal human rights, and an issue of freedom of faith and conscience.[19][27]
Under current laws in Islamic countries, the prescribed punishment for the apostate (or murtadd مرتد
ranges from execution to prison term to no punishment.[28][29] Sharia courts in some countries use civil code to void the Muslim apostate’s marriage and deny child custody rights, as well as his or her inheritance rights for apostasy.[30] In the years 1985-2006, four individuals were executed by governments for apostasy from Islam: "one in Sudan in 1985; two in Iran, in 1989 and 1998; and one in Saudi Arabia in 1992."[24] Twenty-three Muslim-majority countries, as of 2013, additionally covered apostasy in Islam through their criminal laws.[31] The Tunisian Constitution of 2014 stipulates protection from attacks based on accusations of apostasy[32]Ce ti anglescina dela problema pa se verzija v slovescini...
DA, NE, karkoli.
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Izbrisan uporabnik 474
Očitno angleščina dela probelme tebi, saj odgovor ne more biti "Da, NE, karkoli," ampak je lahko samo "DA."
Under current laws in Islamic countries, the prescribed punishment for the apostate (or murtadd مرتد ranges from execution to prison term to no punishment.
Muslimanske države, ki so malenkost bolj napredne in se držijo civilnega prava (recimo Libanon), kazni za apostat ne poznajo (kljub temu, da jo določen delež prebivalastva podpira). Države, ki so pa stisnile pavzo v srednjem veku (Mavretanija, Somalija, Savdska Arabija, Jemen, Irak, Pakistan, Afganistan, Sudan), pa imajo smrtno kazne za apostat celo uzakonjeno. Še več - vse te države (z izjemo Jemna in Somalije) inajo celo uzakonjeno smrtno kazen za ateizem!
Očitno ti je šel tvoj "jihad" v mladosti bolj slabo...
Under current laws in Islamic countries, the prescribed punishment for the apostate (or murtadd مرتد
ranges from execution to prison term to no punishment. Muslimanske države, ki so malenkost bolj napredne in se držijo civilnega prava (recimo Libanon), kazni za apostat ne poznajo (kljub temu, da jo določen delež prebivalastva podpira). Države, ki so pa stisnile pavzo v srednjem veku (Mavretanija, Somalija, Savdska Arabija, Jemen, Irak, Pakistan, Afganistan, Sudan), pa imajo smrtno kazne za apostat celo uzakonjeno. Še več - vse te države (z izjemo Jemna in Somalije) inajo celo uzakonjeno smrtno kazen za ateizem!
Očitno ti je šel tvoj "jihad" v mladosti bolj slabo...
Citat:
Uporabnik Gargy pravi:
Očitno angleščina dela probelme tebi, saj odgovor ne more biti "Da, NE, karkoli," ampak je lahko samo "DA."
Under current laws in Islamic countries, the prescribed punishment for the apostate (or murtadd مرتد
Muslimanske države, ki so malenkost bolj napredne in se držijo civilnega prava (recimo Libanon), kazni za apostat ne poznajo (kljub temu, da jo določen delež prebivalastva podpira). Države, ki so pa stisnile pavzo v srednjem veku (Mavretanija, Somalija, Savdska Arabija, Jemen, Irak, Pakistan, Afganistan, Sudan), pa imajo smrtno kazne za apostat celo uzakonjeno. Še več - vse te države (z izjemo Jemna in Somalije) inajo celo uzakonjeno smrtno kazen za ateizem!
Očitno ti je šel tvoj "jihad" v mladosti bolj slabo...
It's called sarcasm. Look it up. Ce te ze iz prvega odgovora ni potegnilo (Biblija). Pa vidim ni. Pa dvomim da kdaj bo....
Citat:
Uporabnik eazy pravi:
Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ردة‎‎ riddah or ارتداد irtidād) is commonly defined as the conscious abandonment of Islam by a Muslim in word or through deed.[1][2] It includes the act of converting to another religion by a person who was born in a Muslim family or who had previously accepted Islam.[3] The definition of apostasy from Islam, and whether and how it should be punished are matters of controversy, and Islamic scholars differ in their opinions on these questions.[4][5][6]
Apostasy in Islam includes within its scope not only the wilful renunciation of Islam by a Muslim through a declaration of their renunciation of the Islamic faith (whether for another religion or irreligiosity), or if lacking a declaration, then by specific deed of undergoing the rites of conversion into another religion, but also even denying, or merely questioning, any "fundamental tenet or creed" of Islam, such as the divinity of God, prophethood of Muhammad, or mocking God, or worshipping one or more idols.[7][8] Different Muslim denominations and schools of thought may also hold different additional views of what each consider a fundamental tenet of the faith. Nevertheless, Muslim jurists from the early period, from different Muslim denominations and schools of thought, developed legal institutions to circumvent harsh punishment in allegations or charges of apostasy. These institutions set the standard for what counts as apostasy from Islam so high that at least prior to the 11th century practically no judgment of apostasy could be passed,[9] though since then, these high standards of what counts for apostasy have not been consistently applied throughout the Muslim World.
The apostate term has also been used for people of religions that trace their origins to Islam, such as the Bahá'ís in Iran, even when the modern adherents of said religions may never have actually been Muslims themselves. Apostasy in Islam does not include acts against Islam or conversion to another religion that is involuntary, forced or done as concealment out of fear of persecution or during war (Taqiyya or Kitman).[10][11]
Until the late 1800s, the vast majority of Islamic scholars in Madh'hab (Sunni) and Imamah (Shia) schools of jurisprudence held that for adult men, apostasy in Islam was a crime as well as a sin, an act of treason punishable with the death penalty,[5][12] typically after a waiting period to allow the apostate time to repent and return to Islam.[5][13][14][15] The kind of apostasy generally deemed to be punishable by the jurists was of the political kind, although there were considerable legal differences of opinion on this matter.[16] Wael Hallaq states that "[in] a culture whose lynchpin is religion, religious principles and religious morality, apostasy is in some way equivalent to high treason in the modern nation-state."[17] In the late 1800s, the use of criminal penalties for apostasy fell into disuse, although civil penalties were still applied.[5]
According to Abdul Rashied Omar, the majority of modern Islamic jurists continue to regard apostasy as a crime deserving the death penalty.[13] Some consider apostasy in Islam to be a form of religious crime, although others do not.[4][5][18] Others argue that the death penalty is an inappropriate punishment,[19][20][21][22] inconsistent with the Qur'anic injunctions such as Quran 88:21-22[23] or "no compulsion in religion";[24] and/or that it is not a general rule but it was enacted at a time when the early Muslim community also faced internal enemies who threatened its unity, safety, and security, and needed to prevent and punish the equivalent of desertion or treason,[25] and should be enforced only if apostasy becomes a mechanism of public disobedience and disorder (fitna).[26] According to Khaled Abou El Fadl, moderate Muslims do not believe that apostasy requires punishment.[23] Critics argue that the death penalty or other punishment for apostasy in Islam is a violation of universal human rights, and an issue of freedom of faith and conscience.[19][27]
Under current laws in Islamic countries, the prescribed punishment for the apostate (or murtadd مرتد
Ce ti anglescina dela problema pa se verzija v slovescini...
DA, NE, karkoli.
približno tole si hotel povedati
Kolikor gledam te posnetke konvertitov, imajo vsi nek probem s sprejetostjo v svoji družini in socialnem prostoru. Islam pa obljublja pripadnost veliki družini, podobno kot krščanstvo pred veliko leti. Danes je katoliška cerkev uvidela in priznala svoje grehe, na nek način je odrasla, najbrž ne bo ponovila svojih napak iz srednjega veka. Islam je mlajša religija in je zdaj podobna najstniku in razmišlja v stilu "svet se deli na dobre in na slabe in slabe je treba uničit". Sliši se jasno in enostavno, zato potegne množice. Sploh ljudje, ki so izčrpani, zmedeni in v stiski, potrebujejo enostavna navodila, predvsem pa konkretno pomoč. Islam trenutno nudi oboje. Vendar ne spoštuje svobodne volje. Kazen za izstop iz Islama je smrt . Dovoljeno je telesno in spolno nasilje nad ženskami, ubijanje nevernikov in dolgega seznama ljudi, ki užalijo njihova verska čustva. Zelo zelo podobno katoliški cerkvi v nekem drugem času. V bistvu je še danes precej blaga kar se tiče spolnega in telesnega nasilja nad ženskami in otroci. A sploh so kake cerkvene sankcije, če zakoniti mož mlati svojo zakonito ženo in otroke?
Citat:
Uporabnik nacek pravi:
Citat:
Uporabnik eazy pravi:
Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ردة‎‎ riddah or ارتداد irtidād) is commonly defined as the conscious abandonment of Islam by a Muslim in word or through deed.[1][2] It includes the act of converting to another religion by a person who was born in a Muslim family or who had previously accepted Islam.[3] The definition of apostasy from Islam, and whether and how it should be punished are matters of controversy, and Islamic scholars differ in their opinions on these questions.[4][5][6]
Apostasy in Islam includes within its scope not only the wilful renunciation of Islam by a Muslim through a declaration of their renunciation of the Islamic faith (whether for another religion or irreligiosity), or if lacking a declaration, then by specific deed of undergoing the rites of conversion into another religion, but also even denying, or merely questioning, any "fundamental tenet or creed" of Islam, such as the divinity of God, prophethood of Muhammad, or mocking God, or worshipping one or more idols.[7][8] Different Muslim denominations and schools of thought may also hold different additional views of what each consider a fundamental tenet of the faith. Nevertheless, Muslim jurists from the early period, from different Muslim denominations and schools of thought, developed legal institutions to circumvent harsh punishment in allegations or charges of apostasy. These institutions set the standard for what counts as apostasy from Islam so high that at least prior to the 11th century practically no judgment of apostasy could be passed,[9] though since then, these high standards of what counts for apostasy have not been consistently applied throughout the Muslim World.
The apostate term has also been used for people of religions that trace their origins to Islam, such as the Bahá'ís in Iran, even when the modern adherents of said religions may never have actually been Muslims themselves. Apostasy in Islam does not include acts against Islam or conversion to another religion that is involuntary, forced or done as concealment out of fear of persecution or during war (Taqiyya or Kitman).[10][11]
Until the late 1800s, the vast majority of Islamic scholars in Madh'hab (Sunni) and Imamah (Shia) schools of jurisprudence held that for adult men, apostasy in Islam was a crime as well as a sin, an act of treason punishable with the death penalty,[5][12] typically after a waiting period to allow the apostate time to repent and return to Islam.[5][13][14][15] The kind of apostasy generally deemed to be punishable by the jurists was of the political kind, although there were considerable legal differences of opinion on this matter.[16] Wael Hallaq states that "[in] a culture whose lynchpin is religion, religious principles and religious morality, apostasy is in some way equivalent to high treason in the modern nation-state."[17] In the late 1800s, the use of criminal penalties for apostasy fell into disuse, although civil penalties were still applied.[5]
According to Abdul Rashied Omar, the majority of modern Islamic jurists continue to regard apostasy as a crime deserving the death penalty.[13] Some consider apostasy in Islam to be a form of religious crime, although others do not.[4][5][18] Others argue that the death penalty is an inappropriate punishment,[19][20][21][22] inconsistent with the Qur'anic injunctions such as Quran 88:21-22[23] or "no compulsion in religion";[24] and/or that it is not a general rule but it was enacted at a time when the early Muslim community also faced internal enemies who threatened its unity, safety, and security, and needed to prevent and punish the equivalent of desertion or treason,[25] and should be enforced only if apostasy becomes a mechanism of public disobedience and disorder (fitna).[26] According to Khaled Abou El Fadl, moderate Muslims do not believe that apostasy requires punishment.[23] Critics argue that the death penalty or other punishment for apostasy in Islam is a violation of universal human rights, and an issue of freedom of faith and conscience.[19][27]
Under current laws in Islamic countries, the prescribed punishment for the apostate (or murtadd مرتد
Ce ti anglescina dela problema pa se verzija v slovescini...
DA, NE, karkoli.
približno tole si hotel povedati
Kolikor gledam te posnetke konvertitov, imajo vsi nek probem s sprejetostjo v svoji družini in socialnem prostoru. Islam pa obljublja pripadnost veliki družini, podobno kot krščanstvo pred veliko leti. Danes je katoliška cerkev uvidela in priznala svoje grehe, na nek način je odrasla, najbrž ne bo ponovila svojih napak iz srednjega veka. Islam je mlajša religija in je zdaj podobna najstniku in razmišlja v stilu "svet se deli na dobre in na slabe in slabe je treba uničit". Sliši se jasno in enostavno, zato potegne množice. Sploh ljudje, ki so izčrpani, zmedeni in v stiski, potrebujejo enostavna navodila, predvsem pa konkretno pomoč. Islam trenutno nudi oboje. Vendar ne spoštuje svobodne volje. Kazen za izstop iz Islama je smrt . Dovoljeno je telesno in spolno nasilje nad ženskami, ubijanje nevernikov in dolgega seznama ljudi, ki užalijo njihova verska čustva. Zelo zelo podobno katoliški cerkvi v nekem drugem času. V bistvu je še danes precej blaga kar se tiče spolnega in telesnega nasilja nad ženskami in otroci. A sploh so kake cerkvene sankcije, če zakoniti mož mlati svojo zakonito ženo in otroke?
Ne, nisem to zelel zapisati. Niti priblizno, podobno ali okvirno. Vsak dan in povsod* (nisem preveril v vsaki afriski vasi) posamezniki (in skupine) zapuscajo in sprejemajo Islam. Tudi v Sloveniji. In? Ce pa ze gremo v teoloske/filozofske debate potem na koncu ugotovimo da imajo vse vecje vere isti odnos do tega (karkoli ze je).
Kaj to pomeni v praksi...
Ti lahko 125x zapustis ali sprejemes Islam (ali katerkoli drugo vero) skoraj kjerkoli na planetu. Nobody would f. care. Zgornje filozofiranje o tem je pa samo racionalizacija ksenofobije.
Cenk Uygur (TYT) je ze nestetokrat v eter rekel da je zapustil Islam... Pa se kr zivi. Normalno in (nad)povprecno.
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Izbrisan uporabnik 474
V kar 14% vseh držav po svetu je apostat kazniv in kaznovan (govorimo samo o islamu). Pa sem niso vštete tvoje "afriške vasice," drugače bi bila številka še precej večja. 54% vseh držav, ki so uradno muslimanske, ima apostat tako ali drugače kazniv...
Spet skušaš malo prirejat...
Nic ne prirejam.... Ce te zanima teoreticno/teolosko/filozofske ozadje tega bos moral kontaktirati nekoga pri Islamski skupnosti. Dobil bos cca enak kakor pri lokalnem zupniku. Nimam pojma zakaj bi to kdo pocel in kaj bi mel od tega ampak ok. Iz prakse ti povem da lahko kjerkoli kadarkoli zapustis Islam bp. Tisoce (v bistvu miljoni) to pocnejo vsak dan. Tudi v Sloveniji se je to zgodilo, tudi pri zelo znanih osebah.
Posamezniki (pa tudi skupine) vseh ver se vsakodnevno morijo/posiljujejo tako "prepoved zapuscanja" katerkoli vere ni ravno resna debata. Ce se stotine (ali miljoni) upajo moriti so verjetno zelo k. zaskrbljeni zaradi kazni pri zapuscanju vere. Katerekoli vere. Kjerkoli. Kakorkoli.
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Izbrisan uporabnik 474
Da se je v Sloveniji to že zgodilo (verjetno celo večkrat) in pri znaninh osebah, si zdaj poudaril že n-krat. Pa pomeni toliko, kolikor mišji kakec. Slovenija je namreč civilizirana država z večinsko krščanskim prebivalstvom in civilnim pravom, kjer ne veljajo muslimaski zakoni (sharia) in kot takšni tudi ne morejo biti (pravno) kaznovani - še več, Slovenija nima niti smrtne kazni.
Ali pod črto - tvoje nabijanje o izstopih v Sloveniji je debilno in k. nepomembno v celotni debati.
Ali pod črto - tvoje nabijanje o izstopih v Sloveniji je debilno in k. nepomembno v celotni debati.
Torej da se to dogaja okoli tebe vsak dan tebi NI VAZNO. Kaj se dogaja v neki afriski vasi pa tebi seveda JE VAZNO. Logicno, kajnede. Ceprav gre za isto stvar...
So pa muslimane fizicno nadlegovali ucitelji v soli. Kristijani (ucitelji) namrec. Pa ne govorim o teoreticno/filozofski ampak o povsem konkretnih prijemih (posledicah) in primerih. Lahko bi kaj zelo bistroumnega pogruntal iz tega ampak mi manjka doza ksenofobije.
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Izbrisan uporabnik 474
Zaradi mene se lahko vsi pokoljejo zaradi izstopov iz bilokatere vere. Če so že tolk neumni, da se predalčkajo k veram... Lahko je sosed, vaščan, sodržavljan, član EU ali širše Evrope, ali zumbeki na drugi strani planeta - couldn't care less. Point je bil v vprašanju, kjer si se izmikal in nisi hotel odgovoriti, na koncu pa se sklicuješ na (zelo slab) sarakzem, samo da bi se izvil iz odgovora - katerega še, mimogrede, še vedno nimamo...
Drugače pa lepo za tebe, da okrog tebe nikoli ni bilo probelmov. A BiH iz tvoje mladosti in zdajšnja je velika razlika - pa saj to tudi sam veš. Poznam BiH od prej, še boljše jo poznam danes... In v BiH poznam vsaj en primer (Sanski Most), kjer je nekdo zaradi izstopa iz Islama izgubil življenje.
Ti pa verjamem, da so nadlegovali eden druge (kristjani/muslimani) in zato vedno pravim, da kjer je vera zraven (katerakoli), je sranje in pamet odpove...
Drugače pa lepo za tebe, da okrog tebe nikoli ni bilo probelmov. A BiH iz tvoje mladosti in zdajšnja je velika razlika - pa saj to tudi sam veš. Poznam BiH od prej, še boljše jo poznam danes... In v BiH poznam vsaj en primer (Sanski Most), kjer je nekdo zaradi izstopa iz Islama izgubil življenje.
Ti pa verjamem, da so nadlegovali eden druge (kristjani/muslimani) in zato vedno pravim, da kjer je vera zraven (katerakoli), je sranje in pamet odpove...
